A White Gay’s Guide for Dealing with the Black Community: Chapter 6: Why Fighting for Gay Marriage is a Privilege
A recent roundtable conversation on NPRs “Tell Me More” hosted by Michel Martin between myself, writers Michael Sean Winters, and Andrew Sullivan, on the future of the gay civil rights movement, further illustrated why there continues to be a divide in the gay community.
As I pointed out before, it is a privilege to be able to focus solely on the issue of obtaining marriage for lesbian and gay couples. A privilege that many of us aren’t afforded.
It continues to be issue number one for the gay civil rights movement because for its leaders it is the last step in achieving parity with their heterosexual counterparts who already have the six-figure income, house, vacation house, an adopted son or daughter from somewhere in Africa or some other impoverished nation, and two or more cars.
Cloaked under the guise “equality” it is everything but.
What the gay civil rights movement architects fail to understand is that even if I can get married tomorrow as a Black lesbian, I’ve still go to deal with a whole plethora of issues that quite frankly, they’ve never had to deal with. I’m talking about driving while being Black, last to be hired first to be hired, and working twice as hard to have half the chance.
Marriage isn’t going to do anything about either of those issues so I don’t buy into this argument that gay marriage is the last great civil rights fight.
For people like Andrew Sullivan, it probably is. For people like me, come again.
While I am not saying that marriage isn’t worth fighting for, I am questioning the constant use of the “equality” as a means by which to measure its worth in contemporary society. I also question marriage taking precedence over the issue of HIV/AIDS, homophobia, the ENDA, and hate crimes—all of which affect Black gays I on a daily basis way more than being denied the right to marry.
It’s kind of hard to walk down the aisle if you’re lying in a hospice dying from AIDS. It’s even harder to do when you’re confined to a coffin with a bullet in the back of the head. I’m just saying. And while I know the first argument of defense from marriage proponents is always that marriage provides benefits to couples, if you ain’t got no job or you were fired from your job because you are gay, you ain’t got no benefits.
Marriage proponents can holler equality until they are pink in the face, but until the gay civil rights movements puts the same amount of resources, effort, and energy into combating some of these other issues, that’s one thing it will never be.
Now if they want to start admitting that gay marriage is equality for wealthy (mostly) white gay men and women, you’ll get no argument from me.
I don’t expect people like Andrew Sullivan or his counterparts to ever be able to understand that. Their heads are too far in the clouds and their lives are too far removed from the neighborhoods I come from and the people I care about.
And quite frankly, it’s irritating and I for one am not going to go along with the “okeydoke” and act like it’s okay or play nice on the radio when discussing it because others are listening and I don’t want to come off like the angry Black woman. I am the angry Black woman when it comes to issues like this and I’m not going to play nice for the sake of appearances. Fuck that shit—it is what it is. We got enough Black folks faking the funk and doing their business for them without adding me to the list.
What Should the Gay Civil Rights Make Priority #1? Total Voters: 103
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Thank you for putting this audio out for us to hear for ourselves.
It seems that the emphasis on marriage is over stated. There are many struggles. In the last election cycle, the California legal establishment pushed this issue onto the front burner. Was it really the “gay community leaders” that did this, or a bunch of lawyers in California?
Also, loudly whining because some sections of the population seem to have more than you is not going to help.
Good job Jasmyne! Andrew Sullivan seems to have a single minded focus on same sex marriage. The other two commentators seem to agree that the gay movement should address a multiplicity of issues AT THE SAME TIME. Andrew is pretty clueless. Again, I liked your remarks. You handled yourself well.
P.S. – Andrew is HIV-positive, which I’m sure you know. It’s interesting that he doesn’t address the issue of HIV/AIDS.
Very well done Jasmyne. You nailed it as always.
Some people aren’t going to get it because they don’t want to.
Thank you for continuing to be the voice of truth and calling out conservative gays on their BS.
Very well stated.
Thanks for the audio file
Your position is quite clear and understandable.
I’m also quite unsure if the huge focus on gay marriage is really a smart choice.
i think im getting real tired of all this crap. im tired of gay people making such a big deal about marriage for them, while they leave transgender people behind.
i also believe it always come downn to race because it is where we always take it.
if you want people to understand you, then sit them down and talk with them. don’t keep knocking those upside the head, when some are trying to understand.
not everyone is racist and if they, then so are we. also, we need to stop protecting our black community, when we know damn well, many black people, especially those in church, don’t agree with the lgbt community.
HIV/AIDS is not a top issue for me. I am well educated on health issues and am in a monogamous relationship and do not engage in risky behavior, why in the world should the gay civil right movement be spending time on this issue.
Sounds pretty absurd right…it is.
You may not directly benefit from marriage equality, but there are countless other gays and lesbians who will. Stop putting your own faces as the cover of gay and lesbian civil rights issues, your voices are not the only ones that matter.
I don’t see the point, whats wrong with focusing on more than one issue at a time. And why do you assume marriage is a wealthy people issue. If you ask me, a poor person should really be the one concerned with marriage so they could split the bills, not to mention they couldn’t afford the legal bills from all that extra legal paperwork gay couples have to do b/c they can’t get married.
Thats like me saying why all the hoopla about police brutality, a cop doesn’t kill an unarmed person everyday
People with HIV need things like health insurance, which is routinely provided to married (or domestic partnered) couples. Also, it’s nice when your loved one can visit you in the hospital because you’re not viewed as “legal strangers to eachother”.
It would be even better if Social Security Benefits / Disability, public assistance and other public programs would be guaranteed to married gay couples.
Too bad that you’re too short-sighted to see this, Jasmyne, since it would address a lot of your concerns that you list above.
What’s downright traqgic is that you present fighting for gay marriage as a false dichotomy. There are a LOT of causes that gay people can fight for simultaneously. It need not be either / or.
Unless, of course – you just hate white people THAT much. Then your argument is simple perfection.
People with HIV need things like health insurance, which is routinely provided to married (or domestic partnered) couples. Also, it’s nice when your loved one can visit you in the hospital because you’re not viewed as “legal strangers to eachother”.
It would be even better if Social Security Benefits / Disability, public assistance and other public programs would be guaranteed to married gay couples.
Too bad that you’re too short-sighted to see this, Jasmyne, since it would address a lot of your concerns that you list above.
What’s downright tragic is that you present fighting for gay marriage as a false dichotomy. There are a LOT of causes that gay people can fight for simultaneously. It need not be either / or.
Unless, of course – you just hate white people THAT much. Then your argument is simple perfection.
I guess I still don’t get it why this gay marriage is on the front burner for so many, when in most states you can lose your job for being gay, married or not. You can get beat down or murdered and the thug get a slap on the hand in most states. The transgendered are being slaughtered in the streets and the police ignore it for the most part. Lack of jobs and health care is a major issue with gays of color, as are jobs, so, I for one am sick and tired of this marriage talk, it is not going to happen in this country, except in a few, small progressive states. And, even when it happened in Cali, few even took advantage of it for crying out loud.
And, odd that so many of the white gays blame blacks for it not being the law of the land, when at last glance, white folks outnumber blacks by a rather large majority.
I agree with Steve, you are putting your own face on this issue, a different issue, in fact.
Being Black + Gay/Lesbian does not make all Gay/Lesbians Black or their problems the top priority. There is such an organization called the NAACP, and it is a privilege for them to fight for black rights, in the same line of thinking you are providing here.
When people have to fight to see their loved ones in the Hospital because they are not married.
When people have to fight to get on health insurance plans.
When people have to fight for their jobs. To be hired(It’s a $50 fine to not hire someone in Dallas, Tx because they are gay, for being Black, it’s a much bigger deal, fines, investigations, legal recourse, etc…).
“It continues to be issue number one for the gay civil rights movement”
Then you talk about issues unrelated to gay couples, which is the focus of gay marriage. I hate to be the one to clarify this for you, as it seems an obvious step.
“Marriage isn’t going to do anything about either of those issues so I don’t buy into this argument that gay marriage is the last great civil rights fight.”
You said gay civil rights movement… ?!?!?!?!
Driving while black? All african americans are gay then? I think you’ll find some people disagree with you. You made a huge logical leap without ever fulfilling it. There are many civil rights issues out there, many of which do not include gay or african americans, yet you only cater to the african american community here and their issues.
You have legal recourse, you have a group of some gay and white people who fight for you. The ACLU. With the legal recourse, the laws, etc.. you’ve got a better platform to fight with, to win, and to succeed. The gay rights movement is still developing this.
Remember what I said. Fired for $50 city fine in Dallas. Fired for being black to can easily sue for much more, bring things down upon the company. But for being gay? You can’t sue, there’s no damages, and outside the city of Dallas, you’re only protected if you’re black. If you’re gay you are kicked to the curb.
Please understand the differences in issues.
As a Black lesbian, I have to say that I don’t quite understand the whole gay-marriage-doesn’t-matter-to-us thing. Marriage is not a privilege. It is a fundamental right that was denied us under slavery, regardless of our sexuality. Now, if we are gay, it is still denied to us.
I have to say, Jasmyne, that I have a lot of respect for the way that you have spoken out against white gay racism. I don’t understand, though, why your fight against white gay racism has turn into opposition to gay marriage. You may say that you don’t oppose gay marriage, but if you believe that it is something gays shouldn’t be fighting for, then you are opposing it — or at least accepting the status quo.
This Black lesbian wants to be able to marry. I have several Black friends who did marry their Black partners when it was legal here in Oakland (and in the rest of California). This should be proof enough to you that gay marriage is NOT just a white thing. Don’t even try to say that those of us who got married are “acting white,” either. Because it is not. Love is for same-gender-loving brothers and sisters, too.
Jasmyne, YOU GO WOMAN! It is refreshing to hear someone acknowledge the helium inhaling unconsciousness of some within the white gay male community when it comes to issues of color within the LGBT community. Hopefully Andrew will take the time to LEARN about African American history and the civil rights movement before he opens his mouth.
Jasmyne, you go girl..bravo that you got guts to speak out as our “leaders” in LGBT movement run around to silence any dissent, disagreement or discredit especially people of color in the movement. no MARRIAGE is not an issue for me..when I talk to my straight friends of color first thing i tell them how RACIST the gay movement is and it shows..there is NO representation except TOKENS in national gay organizations even those which claim to work on person of color issues. to all those leaders looking to make marriage first talk to us about the good old boy networks of gay white people who are the only ones to gain from these issues..talk to us about economic issues, healthcare, violence againt persons of color, racism in gay community and then talk to us about MARRIAGE…
I have to thank you Jasmyne for being so brave in the face of adversity by gay white people. Their gay marriage rant is not going to go over me or my local community. I dont support it. Did you see an article in New York magazine featuring wealthy gay white men flashing their resources to have a wedding?? Those are the people who stand to gain most from gay marriage and not blacks, latinos or asians. Jasymene, lets make a list of national gay organizations headed by gay whites and lets see how many LGBT people of color are represented and dont forget when one gay white is given a job by these organizations that white person helps other whites through networking, contact sharing and just improving their own. And so Andrew yes this is about race and racism with in the gay community. Lets talk about why gay blacks, latinos, asians have not benefited or are visible in gay community..why our issues — access to health care, decent jobs, empowering our leaders — is not on the radar of national gay organizations. why almost every gay person in gay media is white.
I would love to marry my partner, but I can’t. I’m a black lesbian and it’s important to ME and my PARTNER.
I am straight, black and have always supported gay community everywhere including at the voting booth. I know what it means to be discriminate. I am really disappointed with results of prop 8 but I am also appalled at the name calling, the aftermath and anger directed at blacks and other minorties. I always wondered why I always only see white gay leaders, images on TV but now it is confirmed how gay community treats its own people of color. the web now is full of horrifying stories of discrimination faced by gay people of color within the gay community and how they are marganiziled..in all honesty i oppose all kinds of discrimination but I just cant defend gays in my conversations with others.
I suggest to white gay community to be more constructive in their outreach to black community and others and to be more inclusive as this would only further human rights for all and not just for gay white folks. And thank you sister Jasmyne for raising these issues. keep up the great work and dont ever get intimidated by anyone for speaking out. we all take something from your courage.
hey girl, is there anyway to send this guide to major, regional and local gay groups because most are white (with few tokens of color to show for) and then they cry out that people of color don’t vote to help them. Lets face it. They planned and put out the white face on gay issues and people of color were totally left out. Gay whites are the major beneficiaries of the progress made by gay rights movmement. All this was done systematically. Gay people of color issues are used by gay whites when they need us in public forums etc.
And now you would see a response by more black faces (tokens with no actual authority or power) in gay organizations. All this is so disgusting. how about some real change with some acknowledgement by gay whites that they are racist but do want to change their ways and include us in the movement. Perhaps gay community is the only one group which wants to leave people of color out. i never understood it but ofcourse being a person of color and gay I am used to taking shit from everyone.
since when Andrew Sullivan has become the spokeperson for gay community..??? I dont read his columns and have no interest in his “vision” of gay community including blacks. Andrew, please go to your conservative peers to preach your agenda whatever it is as it seems to be changing from glamourizing of disease of AIDS and HIV+ persons to immigration because of your personal situation not that you care about anyone.
And thanks to Jasmyne for taking a stand and speaking out. I encourage all fellow people of color to question gay rights movement to bring about “real change.”
Jasmyne, I have an idea.
Maybe the problem is just the phrase, “civil rights”, you know? Like maybe if we had a movement with so many of the same goals and hopes and similarities as the Civil Rights movement, but just called it something else. Sort of like a “separate-but-equal” thing. Maybe you would go for that?
wow is this article depressingly divisive.
I don’t seem to remember marriage equality being the top priority for ANY LGBTQ organization at the Federal level. Correct me if I am wrong. I hear about DADT, ENDA, Federal recognition of DP of Federal employees, recognition of ss partners for immigrant status, HIV/AIDS funding, and about Hate Crimes (which was passed this year in Congress). I think you will see if you look at states (and DC) where marriage equality is an issue, things like discriminatory hiring practices, housing discrimination, violence against the LGBTQ community, and other such issues are being addressed in other ways (althought the success can be debated). I do not think that ANY state has a LGBTQ organization that is pushing marriage equality BEFORE any of these other things. I think most LGBTQ organizations consider it a natural progression that once some of these other things that our community cares about are accomplished at a more local level that they THEN start to tackle marriage equality, but not before. Correct me if I am wrong.
The LGBTQ community has a long history of both racism and sexism (and I do think these are the worst at the national level where so much of the focus is on fund-raising). It is important to continue to focus on basic issues for the entire LGBTQ community that we do not all share at a national level like AIDS/HIV funding, and ENDA type protection in a piecemeal fashion at a more local level. I do not think anyone is advocating a marriage equality ONLY focus for any sort of local or national agenda. There are a lot of rights that are afforded to LGBTQ people through marriage, and it is foolish not to push for it in a locality if the timing seems ripe for it.
“I don’t buy into this argument that gay marriage is the last great civil rights fight.
For people like Andrew Sullivan, it probably is. For people like me, come again.
While I am not saying that marriage isn’t worth fighting for, I am questioning the constant use of the “equality” as a means by which to measure its worth in contemporary society”
Whaaaa. Blame the media, not the people fighting for equality of MARRIAGE. Stop conflating people with good ideas with the more ignorant masses and the media that panders and sells these ideas to them. You can feel mad at whomever you wish, but you don’t have to only choose ONE issue to focus on. And it’s most certainly not at the expense of any of the other aforementioned issues.
“last to be hired first to be hired”
Fucking proofread. Comma’s not the only thing missing.
Might help.
Consider for just a moment, that gay marriage is an issue that effects not just the now, but more importantly the future. By banning gay marriage, the younger generation is told they don’t deserve the happy ending. When your young, the ideal is companionship, support, the ‘one’ for me. That ‘one’ just happens to be of the same sex. It is not until we grow up that our minds are perverted with hopeless and defeatist ideals, such as, gay marriage is not possible. Which may contribute to developing poor life choices such as promiscuous sex, drug abuse, risky sexual protection habits, etc. Self identity is directly related to how we perceive our possibilities and worth.
Young people of all races and genders are looking to us adults for an ounce of basic humanity and common sense. From this post and subsequent responses, it seems we’ve abandoned that compassion at that same young age and traded it in to become bitter, jaded, single-track and self-motivating individuals. Or at least, this much is present in my black gay community, not exclusively, but definitely a prominent and highly influentially force.
American history has shown us that we frequent embarrassing ourselves. We will have ridiculous policies and restrictions, make amends, then look back 15yrs later and say ‘What were we thinking?’(Native Americans, slavery, women’s rights, sexism,racism, ageism, and for now heterosexism). I’m confident that 15yrs from now we will have progressed to the point of legalizing gay marriage, not just for us and our partners, but to help give the future something to look forward to.
Regarding the race issues. Racism may always exist, until we as human beings have evolved to a point were we all can’t tell each other apart.
We are in an entire new century. Let’s rid ourselves of the separatist way of thinking…
…please