Election ’08: More Prop. 8 Madness—From Westwood to the Hood
So last night I quickly posted my thoughts on finding out that Blacks had been targeted during the Westwood march by some in the gay community as being the reason why Prop. 8 passed. Very upsetting to say the least.
N-Word Hurled at Blacks During Westwood Prop 8 Protest
OMG The Gays Are Trying To Get Gangsta With It
But this madness isn’t germane to the gay community only as it has ruffled the feathers of Blacks who feel like they are being attacked in both the media and now on the streets by gays for their role in passing Prop. 8.
Case in point. Every morning I get up and head to the tennis courts before starting my work day, today was no different—except for the fact that today my practice was interrupted by people on the adjacent court who were loudly discussing their thoughts about gays and Prop. 8. So loudly that their conversation provoked me to stop playing and give them a piece of my mind. You just never know who you are playing tennis next to because before I announced I was a lesbian and didn’t appreciate the comments being said about gays on the court today—it was all good. As one of the men said, “I was going to ask you on a date.” Ha! Even if I wasn’t a lesbian, trust me when I say that I wouldn’t have been interested.
Unfortunately, for them, I am in the habit of taping my tennis lessons so that I can review my strokes and see where I need to improve—today was no different.
I thought tennis started with love for all, not hate. Go figure?
Next the gays are now trying to enlist the support of our Black elected officials to spearhead conversations between them and heterosexual Blacks—mind you these are some of the same politicians that were M.I.A. pre November 4 and Proposition 8—financial contributions and all.
The time for dialogue between the gay community and Blacks was before November 4. It was when they were sitting around their war table trying to develop a campaign strategy that in the end failed…again. That conversation should have been had first with the Blacks in the gay community. How are they going to just ignore the Black same-gender loving community and go straight to the Black politicians in an effort to have a dialogue with Blacks? It says a lot to me when even after all that’s happened, they are more interested in talking to the Black heterosexual community than Black gays. Isn’t that what got them in this mess to begin with?
I am sure before the day is over, there’ll be more news on this front as the gays are headed to Long Beach tonight to protest. I wonder though why they are moving from Westwood to Long Beach and skipping past Compton, Watts, and South L.A.?
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Once again, Jasmyne. “They, they, they.” What the hell? Why not start your OWN protest in SOuth LA or in Compton? You want the gay white community to come protest in OUR hood, when WE are the ones who’ve been tolerating this mess? Oh please.
Quite honestly Tony Jackson, gay marriage isn’t on the TOP of the agenda for most black gays as it is for most white gays. So yes. Gay marriage is really the torch song issue for the white gay community, which doesn’t seek to actively include and form alliance with blacks, straight or gay. Yes, as black gays and lesbians, we are always confronting and attempting to change black homophobia, but it is not our number one responsibility to take marching orders from the white gay community, when they don’t even want to acknowledge our presence in their media or address our issues. Instead, we get mocked a la Shirley Q Liquor or just fetishized/objectified and used for quick sexual pleasure.
God! I have never agreed with you more.
People, why isn’t the black gay community organizing and protesting in the streets for our recognition and respect?
Good lord, I cannot believe it, and yet I know it to be true.
This is truly a sad day…when I was in college, it was believed that homophobic remarks and jokes were as wrong as racist jokes.
This is truly a sad day. One group is alienating an ally.
Even when we have elected a symbol for change, they (the conservative old guard), are still successfully dividing and conquering.
The time for finger-pointing is over. Time to problem-solve it and fix it.
jordonj, when did you go to college. ‘Cause if you you said is true about homophobic remarks and racist jokes being wrong…then I’m going to college in the wrong era!
Where’s a time machine when you need one…
Yes, Lauryn, there was a time when the gay movement was about the liberation of all people, not the empowering of a group of (mostly highly educated, mostly hyper-consumer, mostly white) folks who have an idee fixe with pairing up like Ozzie and Harriet. It wasn’t that long ago.
Maybe this crisis — and it is a crisis — will make the self-appointed GLBT leadership look into their blogs, their magazines, and their souls and see that nobody gets freer until everybody gets freer. But I know some of those folks… and I doubt it.
It hurts me to even think that white gays would not listen to black gays, Asian gays or any other member of the entire gay community. C’mon, Jasmyne – if you feel ignored, get involved! Quit bitching about how no one reaches out to you and reach out yourself. Encourage involvement among all gays to end hatred of anyone. I will work to do the same here in my part of the country and, together, we can make a difference.
I went to college in the late 80’s and early 90’s, but I suspect location had a bit to do with that too (it was in a very liberal one in Hiram Ohio).
Political Correctness was strongly stressed there too (not necessarily always a good thing).
Back on topic…
I find myself wondering, how many of those white gays using the N-word were women…I’m willing to bet most of them were men.
Nice backstroke ! Try being disabled and lesbian, I feel ya. I left the LGBT community long ago. As a rule I don’t belong anywhere and so I forge the road on my own. Living in Ohio where we voted in a constitutional amendment in 2004 and lost the presidential election, I can empathize with how you must be feeling. I woke up the day after the election in 2004 and felt as if everyone around me had done me harm, wanted me invisible and could care less about my personhood. I was scheduled for a medical test and had to rely on these people to care for me and keep me safe while lifting me onto the exam table, it was awful. My straight evangelist neighbor insisted that Ohio would not amend the constitution and promised to vote against it. I couldn’t look him in the eye for weeks and he never expressed his regret at the outcome of the election. People don’t get it. Some insist that Obama should have done more, I don’t hold his views against him. He’s done more than most. He has called out his community more than once, that means alot to me.
I’ve been thinking all week about how the No on 8 people got it wrong, and then were surprised by the defeat. No on 8 worked hard to play the discrimination card, but utterly missed the boat with people of faith. We’ve got to talk with faith communities in the next round to get it right. This can’t be a shout down, this has to be a dialogue. Gay people of faith are going to have to come forward and build bridges between both sides. But Jasmyne, I’m challenged by your reminder about No on 8 ignoring bigger racism issues. I confess, I wondered why the marginalized would marginalize during this election – but you are so right – minority voters FINALLY found their voice in this election, and we can only move forward one step at a time. Hopefully we’re making progress in having people of color feel like they are part of the process, and will now be given a voice in further discussions. Make no mistake: Blacks didn’t elect Obama – AMERICA elected Obama. Blacks didn’t make 8 pass, CALIFORNIANS voted for 8 to pass. We got a lot of information about our state on November 4. This is HELPFUL, not AWFUL. No on 8 proponents need to listen to the hearts of the people who voted yes, and find a different message to change their thinking. The white gay population needs to LISTEN to ALL voices, and find a way to talk about equality for ALL people. It’s for ALL of us, not just SOME of us.
As a white gay Republican a lot of what I am reading here sounds familiar. I take a lot of crap from “the community” for being where the action is. I can’t cure Republican homophobia from the outside merely stomping my feet and blowing whistles. I can assure you that the No on 8 people did not reach out to us significantly either. Merely token representation at the table. (Sound familiar?) When I tried to explain how they win white GOP women I was blown off. so we did our own mailing piece — hand addressed to GOP women of the right age. In the cities where we did it, we reduced the Yes vote by 2-4%. It was the margin that won Irvine for the No on 8 position. The letter was from one Republican to another. I stepped up when the white Democrats blocked me out. I knew to expect them to do otherwise was futile. They want the idea of a coalition of everyone, so long as you shut up and do things the white Democrat way.
JohninOH, if we as blacks do get involved, we are treated like outsiders, never in the front room. I got of the Stonewall group in my town as they were never interested in any issue that I or the other blacks would mention as a black, out gay people. It was always about what they felt was best for the white gays, well, had they listened and realized that, its going to take more than progressive whites to win these battles, perhaps this whole sad, hate and rage filled debacle would have never happened. It seems that many white gay men are doing the same thing that straight ones do, use skin color as an advantage and now that they can’t get what they feel is rightfully for them, are now ticked off.
Darnell – You’re right to some extent. As a white male I am pissed off. I wrote to Jasmyne to point out that if I am unemployed, telling me someone else is homeless isn’t going to make me feel better or make me not fight to get out of that mess before I become homeless. It wasn’t like we put the measure on teh ballot. The fight was brought to us. I can tell you that the frustration for many of us is that something we thought was a joint battle is suddenly presented as if it were just a white man thing. And as if I should say I’m not going to fight that battle on my doorstep because my allies in the black community would rather we save our energies for their cold war. Or my neighbor asking if I can help their terminally ill child while I’m trying to put out a fire in my kitchen. A dying child is far more important than my kitchen, but letting my kitchen burn down right now isn’t going to help me with your child.
Sorry, that last line should have said “isn’t going to help with your child”
i read your piece in l.a. times and, i have to say, your column didn’t help bridge tolerance between the black and gay communities. any disinfranchised group does not need to accept into their homes the gay lifestyle, but that does not mean they have to deny our rights to other groups. there is not much energy into circling in a no next to prop 8. gay marriage isn’t only for whites but for blacks, latinos, native americans and the list goes on. yes, your published opinion helped explain why gay marriage is not the top priority for blacks, as day in and day out blacks and latinos are faced with racial profiling and poverty. but these societal issues should not be a reason for voting yes on prop 8, ultimately denying another group’s rights. your fight against these societal issues is the same fight for equal protection under the law, and that is exactly what we seek as gay americans.
How can anyone judge what happened during this photo?
Who knows. Both parties could have been racist or homophobic, or both, or neither. I don’t think it’s fair to make a judgement because who knows who started this quarrel.
Bottom line, it’s pointless to point fingers at anyone because of their race or sexual orientation.
I
I am a civics teacher in LA County. I have noticed the largest segment with the least amount of compassion for homosexual rights other then the fundamentalist areyoung male blacks. I have assumed it could be dueto the strong christain upbringing by their mothers but it was more likely due to the messages in some hip-hop and rap. I am not sure but I was surprised that a possible ally in the fight for civil rights is in fact not.
Since the passage ofproposition 8 i have heard black leaders and regualr folk talk more openly how we “choose” to be gay.This leads me to believe their is hope. Hope with education.
In regards to your article, I am deeply concerned with the variety of issues systemic from years of overt and covert racism in our society. However, my efforts/concerns on racism do not take away from the fight to wrong an injustice. I am a white gay man who has fought openly the forces of racism. Whether it be a joke or while standing in line at the racetrack. When i hear it i speak out. I cannot seperate injustice created by ignorance.
I am a white gay male, age 51, who does not live in California. I saw your column in the L.A. Times. Then I looked up your blog and read this article. Then I gave it all some thought, and now I’m responding.
At the moment, 20% of CA’s votes haven’t been tabulated, so we don’t know whether black votes put Prop 8 over the top. But I don’t think it’s clear that black voters mere a whole lot more supportive of Prop 8 than white, Latino or Asian voters. I’m not angry about it, and I think it’s wrong and stupid for anything to be throwing racial insults over it. But I’d be lying if I told you I wasn’t disappointed.
Now, do I “blame blacks?” Nope. I think the gay community has a lot of fences to mend. I also think it takes two to mend a fence. I also think that, once all the heat has died down, people should start trying to do it.
I have to disagree with you on some points Jasmyne, but before I go into the laundry list I want to make one BIG point. I think the biggest victims of homophobia among blacks are black gay people. They’re the ones who can’t talk to their families or connect to their larger community. I am not on the down-low. I don’t have to be. My family accept me for who and what I am.
I’ve seen huge positive changes among whites in the last 30 years when it comes to homosexuality. Among blacks, maybe not so much. Like I say, in many ways it’s not really my problem. But guess what? I’d like to see things get better for black gay people, and I’m not b.s.-ing you about that.
So marriage is a luxury for gay people. Our relationships don’t need to be recognized, and having them recognized is not a civil right. Here’s what you ought to do: Get on a plane, fly to Boston, and tell my brother and his partner that their marriage has been a luxury. Make sure you tell it to their five adopted kids, three of whom are African American, one of who is Hispanic, and one of whom is white. See what they think.
I am all ears when you wrote about the No on 8 group’s tactical missteps, such as relying on the NAACP, and holding their rally in the gentrified part of the black community. I couldn’t agree more strongly with your point on this blog about how the time for the time for dialogue between the gay community and blacks was before Nov. 4th, and that the first step was to involve gay black people. You are righter than the rain on that.
But here we are. It is November 8, 2008. Tomorrow it will be November 9. We will move forward whether we like it or not.
Let me put this differently. I think that hate is nothing but the scab that lies on top of fear. We use our hate to protect us against more fear. And anger is the scab that lies on top of hurt. We use our anger to deflect more hurt. Here in America, the land of the proud, we see it as a sign of weakness to openly admit that we have been hurt and scared. So we wander around, displaying our anger and our hurt, oblivious to the other truth, which is that scabs leave scars.
Gay people and black people are separate yet we intersect. We have been feared and hated, and some of hate and hurt in return. All too often, we are afraid to say what we really mean, which is that we hurt, and we are afraid. Not all the time, but often enough.
So, some hateful, hurtful gay white fool uttered a hateful, hurtful statement — nigger! — in Westwood. Hate, the scab over fear, has another characteristic. It’s simple, and it’s boring. Hate is one of the dullest knives in the drawer, yet it seems to be the one so many people want to pick up and wave around. And the rest of us are drawn to it like moths to a flame.
Now, Jasmyne, are you going to amplify it and turn it into the symbol that it isn’t? It remains to be seen. Your column in the L.A. Times, which was seen by approximately 200,000 times as many people as those who heard “nigger” in Westwood, told gay people that their dream is a white luxury. I’m not angry. I am hurt.
I went to the protest in Long Beach because someone organized a protest in Long Beach. I went to a protest in Huntington Beach because someone organized a protest in Huntington Beach. I went to a protest in Rancho Santa Margarita because someone organized a protest in in Rancho Santa Margarita. Organize a protest in Compton and I will be there. Until then, don’t then tell me I skipped Compton for any other reason than I DIDN”T SEE A POST ON CRAIGSLIST ASKING ME TO GO TO COMPTON. There is a small minority within the LGBT community who what want to victimize and be victimized. The rest of us are sincerely concerned about each other. Decide where you wish to stand.
[quote]There is a small minority within the LGBT community who what want to victimize and be victimized. [/quote]
Which Minority is that Mark?
your article’s a bitter pill, jasmyne. You are getting a lot of hits on latimes.com and can expect some umbrage and lots of good letters. Isn’t that what you wanted? I mean, after all, you come off like ‘well! those rich white folks raised all that money but didnt ask ME for my opinion on how to reach out to my people!’ And ‘I’ll decide when I want to if same sex marriage is important enough to warrant my support’. Heh. Either you are for the right thing or you’re not. It’s not the time for Let’s Make a Deal. That being said, I am gay and I am against racism. What can I do to help? See, that was easy! Give it a try, lady. Speak some truth to all that power you got that you so obviously wanted, now’s your time. Unless of course you are not really interested in my rights as a gay white man because you think I already have all I need.
Dear Jasmyne,
I’ve found the conversation pitting gays (presumably all white) against POC (presumably all straight and black) very depressing. I too was dismayed at the miserable effort that the No on 8 folks made outside their white, middle class, corporate enclaves. It was painfully apparent from the start. And that we (I’m gay and Mexican) lost Prop 8 didn’t surprise me. They didn’t do the grassroots work necessary – again. All this anger and disappointment I have (and have had for a long time) at middle and upper middle class white queers only made this current narrative that blacks killed gay marriage all the more disheartening because we know what killed gay marriage – white evangelicals and mormons who trump, in numbers, money and power, every other groups when it comes to an anti-gay agenda.
That being said, I’ve been part of the demos these past few days in L.A. and they are decidedly not white demonstrations, especially last night in Silverlake. While gay marriage has never been my big issue (i mostly work in gay men’s health and wellness), I am nonetheless married to my gay husband and the passage of 8 stung more than I imagined it would. I just want to say this to you … Despite your anger and resentment of the white gay community, Prop 8 has now become a broad social justice issue about queer equality. And while it’s not your priority, it’s still important. There have been a of black and latino queers at the demos. Marriage equality may not be as important as economic equality – not even close – but it’s still important. And it will still be immeasurably appreciated by queers of all races. I’m afraid you’ve dug in your heels a bit too deeply.
Jasmyne,
I read your article in the LA Times this morning, and it struck me in many ways, mostly negatively. Your perspective is your perspective, but it also shows that racism is colorblind. You stated essentially that the black gay community could not get behind the No on 8 movement because it is about “the white gays who funded it, and who are just as racist and clueless when it comes to blacks as they claim blacks are homophobic.”
….Interesting. That sounds like racism to me. Sorry, every rally I have attended has had a wide range of people of all colors and creeds. There are people of all colors in the gay community.
You stated that black people did not see gay marriage as a priority. The ballot did not ask anyone to prioritize. That vote did not ask anyone to choose one group’s rights over another. They are not mutually exclusive. The rationale that you gave sounds alot like, “only we know suffering and you’re complaining. Why should we help you?”
Hate is hate. Voting to exclude any group of people (even if it includes white people) is wrong. The Supreme Court believes it is wrong. This vote meant alot more than marriage, which is why people are taking it to the streets. It was a referendum on who we are as people. Are we the same as straight people? Does my life hold as much value as the next person? Our state voted to exclude us in the Constitution. That is pretty heavy.
In many ways, I don’t really care about marriage, but I do care about being a valued part of my community. And for those that think that the marriage part is insignificant and frivolous, it’s not. When I die I want my partner to be able to get my retirement, the house we will buy together, and anything I leave her-(the same as straight married couples) without having to pay taxes. As it stands, it is not equal.
As this entire issue places me in a virtual conundrum, I can only add the following. I am seriously disheartened by many of the remarks hurled around. The usage of a word like racist as it applies to a Black woman. Racism only applies to those who have the power. And people of color do not have the power and furthermore LGBT people of color have even less than none. This rhetoric which surrounds Proposition 8 represents the Trojan horse that will divide a conquer a community of folk who need to stand together. Take pride in what has been accomplished. Take pride in the fact that history was made on November 4, 2008. I want to one day enjoy those same rights but right now I can sing a praise of hallelujah for times we are living in. For this fight for gay marriage has only just begun. I have yet to see police attack dogs, fire water hoses and marches on Washington to make Prop 8 happen.
THANK YOU for the LA Times Article on Saturday (The Gay/black divide). I agree with pretty much everything you said! I can’t stand how this issue has been turned into a “civil rights” issue! You’re absolutely correct when you said “I don’t see why the right to marry should be a priority for me or other black people.” I am actually Mexican American but I feel the same way. I harbor absolutely no hatred or animosity toward the gay community or gay people in general, but these marches and protests are ridiculous. California voted and California decided, get over it! if this is all they have to “march and protest” about…they should consider themselves lucky!!!
Whether gay or straight, black, white, brown or yellow, we need a million person march on Washington D.C. Remember that President elect Barack Obama needs our help if any lasting change is to come.
I, too, am a lesbian and a racial minority. I, too, was too busy working to get Obama elected to focus on galvanizing people to vote against Prop 8.
The big difference between us is that I know that I, as much as any white, rich, gay guy, am the gay community. To most of my family members, I am the gay community. To my daughter, I am the gay community. If I am not going to stand up for my family’s right to be treated equally under the law, I can’t expect anyone else to. It’s no one else’s job to inspire me to fight for my OWN rights and encourage others to help in the cause.
During this election, you and I (and countless numbers of people in the white gay community) chose to focus all of our efforts on Obama, and we bear some responsibility for Prop 8’s success. My heterosexual, married brother put more effort (and money) into the fight against Prop 8 than I did. He did this all on his own because he figured out, all on his own, that Prop 8 was wrong, unfair, and unjust. He didn’t need to be inspired by anyone in the gay community; he just gets it! Maybe next time around — because, as you mentioned, this isn’t over — more than 50 percent of the voters (and 100 percent of the LGBT community, including you) will finally “get it.”
I agree that for many gay people, especially black people, apparently, there are issues more pressing than marriage.
I am still confused by the lack of regard for the many gay couples, white and black, trying to form a family unit. People like Jasmyne make me sad.
I read your Opinion piece in the LA Times. I agree that the No on Prop 8 people did not do enough of an outreach to the religious community. Notice I said religious community because they were the ones that spearheaded the Yes on Prop 8 campaign. So those are the people that need to be won over, not others in the GLBT community.
You mention that the black gay community should have been consulted first, but where’s the point in that? That’s like preaching to the choir. The votes we needed were the ones that Voted Yes on Prop 8. You yourself didn’t even bother to make any helpful suggestions on how the black religious vote could be won over.
But really, just reading your Opinion piece made me realize that racial discrimination is still your top priority, so sexual orientation discrimination will always be a secondary issue to you.
The time for dialogue between the gay community and Blacks was before November 4.
Where’s the standing ovation smilie when one really needs it?
I have been saying elsewhere that our vote is purely symbolic — both to the wht gays and the gay haters. Each needs validation from US that “gay marriage” either is or is not a “civil rights issue”. They’ll be quick to trot out Coretta Scott King without being able to name even 3 other Civil Rights Movement activists. I am really tiring of this behavior.
Just read your L.A. Times op-ed piece and then found your site and this article. I feel like I am flashing back to my college’s campus gay and lesbian group and the difficulties gay and lesbian students of color had feeling welcomed in it or represented by it. That was back in 1995 and it’s so depressing that, 13 years later, gay whites are still expecting black gays to always focus on very gay-centric issues and push all other aspects of their identities to the side. Seeing the racist ranting going on by so many gay white bloggers and reading about the racist epithets hurled by other white gays at rallies shames me and makes me embarrassed by my own people. But I am going to strive to get past that embarrassment and shame and try to be a voice of reason and a starter of dialog among white gays to try and get a clue about these issues and see beyond these rather narrow viewpoints.
I hope you aren’t getting too many tons of hate mail and comments. But I’m sure you are, knowing how bold people in can be with their ignorance and hate on the Internet.
I don’t understand why they’re blaming the churches or complaining about who had more campaign money. All the ppl, family, & friends that I know whom voted YES on Prop 8 (mostly youths 18-22), including myself (and, I know a-l-o-t of ppl from L.A to the bay area), either attend church every blue moon or haven’t atteded for yrs. Furthermore, most didn’t pay attention to the Prop 8 commercials. Matter of fact, most of us don’t even watch TV & when we do, it’s cable movie channels w/ out commercials or scan channels when commercials come on. Although in this day & age, many adults either have gay friends or as w/ the youth voters, tolerant of female-gays…our take on Prop 8 is right is right & wrong is wrong. That’s how we voted, by staying focused. It’s physics. It’s also biology- the wiring don’t match the plumbing.
I agree with mehere, I think understanding gay people is more related to intelligence and education than religious faith.
Hello Jasmyne, I would like to thank you for your bravery with your comments. I am a Black woman, and I have been downright INFURIATED at some of the comments I have heard from White Gays over the past few days. They want to believe so much that they understand the civil rights movement. When I pointed out we have 400 years of oppression and lynchmobs..all they stammer and say “Well how can a group be prejudiced against another group?”
This is proof positive to me these folks haven’t even tried to outreach to the Black community. They have no idea what their beliefs are or anything.
Secondly, I want to thank you for speaking out against the racism in the LGBT community. This entire situation has proven what I have thought for years.
These folks in the White gay community are going about this all wrong, and I don’t want to be apart of it either.
The racism in the LGBT is so apparent, and they don’t realize that all of this screaming and yelling at the Black community is not helping anything.
I don’t fit in at all with the White Lesbian community. They are not even accepting of us women of color.
Besides there are more important things to worry about rather than gay marriage. What about food and housing?
What up Good People?
Join me “LIVE” TONIGHT on “It Can’t Just Be Me…” as I welcome
Rev. Roland Springfellow of the Center of Lesbain and Gay studies
to talk about his disappointment with the passing of proposition 8.
Also Bishop Bob Jackson from Acts Full Gospel Church of God In Christ joins us to talk about why he supported proposition 8.
Why did this measure pass? Should African Americans understand more about the homosexual plight than any other race? Is this a civil rights issue?
Call in live TONIGHT with your opinions and questions for these guest.
Log onto: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/EadyMedia
Call in live: 646-595-3233
Time: 10:00pm CST/11:00pm EST
You gotta be here to take part.
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